Lost occasions

Just yesterday I watched again Gotta Catch Ya Later!, and I noted that just before the first trying of farewell Misty seemed about to reveal her feelings when Brock shouted (damn...) that he had to go. And then, when Misty and Brock seemed gone, Ash was saying something about Misty when they popped out from nowhere asked him to continue, preventing him to continue (damn squared!). Does exist some other occasion in wich Misty or Ash was about to reveal her/his feeling to the other but lost the occasion?

Not that I know of if there are then we would have noticed it before Gotta Catch You Later aired

Nope, I don't know any... wait, maybe besides of the situation in the second movie. But I don't know if that counts, anyway here it goes:

Melody and Misty were in that flying boat thing chasing Ash, and Melody was continiously saying that Misty was Ash's girlfriend, adding that she is his friend and that she is a girl- which made her, to put it simply, his girlfriend. After a few minutes Misty mumbeled "yeah..." AH! There you go, she admited it!

But as I said, dunno if that counts...

Oooohh, I watched that episode a few days ago! :-; *cried* And well, i noticed that too =/ I think it was put in to....make it even sadder to watch!
I don't know any other times something like that has happened though....
I hope its brought up again in the future, its not fair to just forget about their relationship =//

Yeah, not fair at all. But unfortunately the makers have decided to do a little joke on us! And their "eye candy" blah blah makes me sick!

Yeah, I just watched Gotta Catch Ya Later, and was paying special attention to some of Misty's body language...

After defeating the Invincible Pokemon Brothers and Team Rocket, Ash compliments Misty. Misty says, "Thanks, Ash, that's sweet." Naturally, Ash is a retard, and confusedly says, "huh?" Misty clarifies herself by thanking Ash for "always being a good friend" to her. True to Ash's clueless character, this is something that he can actually understand. He immediately perks up and says "Sure!"

Then after a pause, Ash says... "Misty?"
Misty VISIBLY acts eager. Watch how she leans forward, almost expectingly. Of course, she probably expects some greater degree of affection from Ash on this parting day that has been pretty sad for her.

Of course, he disappoints her. When he says, "Your bike's there...," Misty leans back, and her tone of voice says it all: a very disheartened, "Oh..."

Of course, this only reinforces the Misty-sidedness of Pokeshipping, but I still think that the way she leans forward expectingly after probingly calling Ash "sweet," and then showing disappointment, is definitely a hint not commonly examined as far as Pokeshipping hints go. So much of communication is un-spoken! The prolongued eye contact at the time of their farewell also attests to that; those are things that 4Kids cannot dub-in! If this is counted as a missed opportunity, then the opportunity was missed by Ash.

Moron.

Anyway, to the question...missed opportunities...

Yeah, that farewell scene in GCYL that was interrupted by Brock. I think it's funny how most of Misty's sorrow of leaving her friends was directed at Ash, even though she was leaving both of them. (I mean, only Ash got a present!)

God, what a cop-out, writers, using Brock to break up what you didn't know how to pull off...There was the prolonged eye-contact, the tearful "Will I ... see you again?", the beautiful sunset casting shadows on their locked faces... Then that abomination that we call Brock gets ants in his pants and acts completely irrational and screams like freak!

So I count two missed opportunities there, even though I think they were deliberately placed there kind of as teasers.

^^ interesting, good to have someone analysing things aside from speech...i mean really are there any verbal hints that we haven't found already? well probably but they're bound to be obscure...anyways...right, yh still not watched that last episode ^^;

I agree with you, yadontknowme03. But there are also a lot of weird hints in that episode that just don't make any sense at all, and since I've watched pretty much all the episodes that exist to date, I noticed that in a lot of cases makers hint at Ash and Brock, though you might not notice it straight away- expecially now in D&P. And 275th episode is... messed up.

In the beginning of the 275th episode ( which is when they part ) Ash, a moron, was extremely happy to find out that Misty finaly got her bike repaired. He was ready to jump out of his clothes from happines, even clenching his fist, a thing he does only when happy or sure of something. I mean, come on, even he knows that Misty+ bike= bitter split up.
Still, he was acting as if nothing was about to happen, the way mentaly retarded 40 year virgins behave. And that's the first weird thing.

Then when Misty's feelings are obviously hurt by the moron, and she runs out crying, he even says "What's wrong with her?", directing that question at Brock who is happy to answer "Maybe she doesn't wanna leave". God, how much obvious can it get, for chrissssst saaaake!?
Still, Ash stares at the empty air like the moron he is.

And when Misty says that there is one more "thing" she should tell him before they split up, he stops her saying " Misty, that's enough."
I mean- w.t.f Have you guys also noticed it? He actualy stopped her from saying maybe the most important thing in his life.

Finally, the last moment before Misty and Ash part is absolutely ridicilous. It's not about Misty, because she still tries her best to get those feelings out but- it's about Ash. In the very last conversation with Misty, he smiles and his speech is well organised, as if he didn't really care if Misty was about to leave him- whereas Misty was almost crying, her speech was disorted, her mood was experiencing a roller-coaster.
But Ash, nah, he stood there, being a happy a**hole.

And that's when the weirdest thing happens. Brock quickly cuts in saying he has to leave as well and immidiately after that Ash falls apart, crying and shaking. Woah, Bouldershippers actually use that scene to the max, to prove Ash is not straight since he really started to care when Brock was to leave. So, even on bulbapedia ( which is run by pokeshippers ), when you go to the "Pokeshippy Episodes" section, you'll find out that episode 275 is labeled "under debate". And that's becuase the whole episode is messed up- with Misty actually trying to finaly tell Ash, and... Ash... being a big, thick as a pig, moroooooon!

But the paintful truth about Ash's sexual preference is, that- Ash is neither straight, nor a gay- Ash is a moron.

oh brilliant so from a conversation about Pokeshipping hints we have classified a third sexuality

Sorry, but I think you're missing the forest for the trees, there.

Pokemon is a 20 minute/episode show that not only has to be translated and dubbed, but also has to cram in stories that take back seat in importance to showcasing different pokemon. If you nit-pick and over-analyze the most tiny and insignificant actions of the characters you're definitely going to find that they don't act exactly the way real-life humans would. Look at the intent of the writers, and try to take things at more face value, and I think you'll notice these things about Pokeshipping: 1. Misty has a crush on Ash. 2. Ash likes Misty, but is dumb and only understands friendship. Every Pokeshipping moment in the show plays out based on these two principles. Again: look at the intent of the writers!

Opponents call this a "one-sided" ship, and they're right, but bear in mind, Ash didn't reject Misty or imply that he actively disliked her... he was simply clueless one way or the other!

Ash acting happy about Misty getting her bike back is totally consistent with Ash's character. He's being a good friend, especially after he was the one who broke the bike. And don't forget: Ash didn't realize that Misty that didn't want to go home. He was dumbfounded when she stormed out of the Pokecenter, and had to ask Brock what was wrong with her. That is also completely consistent with Ash's clueless character. Don't forget Ash saying about Misty's departure, "But it's only until your sisters get back!" (Or something to that effect.) He simply doesn't realize that she is exiting his life the way she is.

Really, every shred of behavior from Ash suggests that he not only doesn't dislike Misty, he really likes her, but is just too dumb to pick up on her feelings. The catch is that all Ash understands is friendship. Isn't that really the whole idea behind "Gotta Catch Ya Later?", not some far-fetched idea that Ash is really gay over Brock? After all, the farewell between Ash and Misty gets 10x the show's attention than Ash and Brock's. Come on, it's not like Brock sings a song.

In summary, I think you've got a good eye for analysis, but I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

EDIT: Oh, and as for "Misty, that's enough!" That is also completely in sync with Ash's personality: clueless, juvenile, and impatient!

might just add to that

really, is there any likelihood that, even in todays (apparently) more tolerant society, that a children's show like Pokemon which actually tries (maybe tried, i don;t know if it;s still as prominent in the new episodes, though i think it probably is) quite hard to teach kids the importance of basic yet essential things like friendship, would even go as far as to suggest a homosexual relationship? let alone actually go out of its way to show it?

doubt it.

And that's when both of you start to limit yourselfes- There are, though you might not like it, quite a lot of hints for Ash and Brock. Of course its Brock who's into Ash and not the other way round, but still. Remember that in the original Japanese version, Misty doesn't sing at all, so I don't consider that being a hint of any sort ( Misty's song is also present only in the English version ) . Plus, 4kids have the reputation of altering the original lines of the characters, which further reinforces the fact that episode 275 may well be regarded as Bouldershippy. In fact, gay pairings are very popular in Japan- with Palletshipping on the first place. You can't deny the fact that the makers of the anime focus as much time on hetero relationships as they do on homo relationships. Tell me, why was James wearing fake boobs in the 18th episode? Add to that the fact he always acts like a woman and certainly screams/screeches like one, and already even the most fanatical fans start to suspect something is a little bit off.

According to pokeani*, Brock is bisexual since apparently some of the anime writers are bisexual as well. ( Though I'm not sure about that, I'm just taking that info from Pokeani* ) Young fans will prove too young to understand, adults on the other hand might not pick up on it since they'll be lured into thinking Pokemon is for kids. Anyway, I've done a lot of reseach on pokemon anime, watching all specials and all the episodes that were not aired in US, nor in Britain and I've stumbled upon some very interesting evidence:



Ok, to put it simply, what you see here is Brock hitting on a 60-something year old man, the name of the episode is "Poetry Commotion!", and it is the 331 Episode of the anime- though officialy not banned or edited, it was aired only once. I'll explain- The old man you see here is the grandfather of a female gym leader, now, Brock can be seen hitting on both of them throughout the episode, in the original version, Brock's lines were... just purely.... wrong ( Like :" You can call me your sweet Grandson too" or "Your Granddaughter's beauty must have been inherited from you, sir."), but in the dub they were edited in a way as to not arise already rising suspicion he's gay. As I said, one has to see AG and D&P to realise the makers are indeed throwing gay stuff at us. I have also seen the episode where Ash is almost kissed by Brock, also in AG. Then again, we see Brock talking and acting dirty towards Ash in the second episode of D&P. The list is very long and I could spend the entire night posting screens and links to websites and youtube proving the stuff I'm talking about now- but I know that the best way is just for you guys to see it for yourself. ( Hence "Seeing is believing" ) So, I'll cut the story short here.

As for pokeshipping, you are right in your own way, Ash does seem to like Misty, but then again, he said that to many people. xD he regards her as a friend and... a supplier of shiny things!!! ( ohhhh the lureeee xD ) but of course yes, Misty loves him 100% no doubt

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*Pokeani- A japanese fan site, a lot of fans consider it to be the only "thruthful" and canon site on the net when it comes to the info on anime; that's what the say, anyway... xD

Oldpokeshipper wrote:And that's when both of you start to limit yourselfes- There are, though you might not like it, quite a lot of hints for Ash and Brock. Of course its Brock who's into Ash and not the other way round, but still. Remember that in the original Japanese version, Misty doesn't sing at all, so I don't consider that being a hint of any sort ( Misty's song is also present only in the English version ) . Plus, 4kids have the reputation of altering the original lines of the characters, which further reinforces the fact that episode 275 may well be regarded as Bouldershippy. In fact, gay pairings are very popular in Japan- with Palletshipping on the first place. You can't deny the fact that the makers of the anime focus as much time on hetero relationships as they do on homo relationships. Tell me, why was James wearing fake boobs in the 18th episode? Add to that the fact he always acts like a woman and certainly screams/screeches like one, and already even the most fanatical fans start to suspect something is a little bit off.

According to pokeani*, Brock is bisexual since apparently some of the anime writers are bisexual as well. ( Though I'm not sure about that, I'm just taking that info from Pokeani* ) Young fans will prove too young to understand, adults on the other hand might not pick up on it since they'll be lured into thinking Pokemon is for kids. Anyway, I've done a lot of reseach on pokemon anime, watching all specials and all the episodes that were not aired in US, nor in Britain and I've stumbled upon some very interesting evidence:

Ok, to put it simply, what you see here is Brock hitting on a 60-something year old man, the name of the episode is "Poetry Commotion!", and it is the 331 Episode of the anime- though officialy not banned or edited, it was aired only once. I'll explain- The old man you see here is the grandfather of a female gym leader, now, Brock can be seen hitting on both of them throughout the episode, in the original version, Brock's lines were... just purely.... wrong ( Like :" You can call me your sweet Grandson too" or "Your Granddaughter's beauty must have been inherited from you, sir."), but in the dub they were edited in a way as to not arise already rising suspicion he's gay. As I said, one has to see AG and D&P to realise the makers are indeed throwing gay stuff at us. I have also seen the episode where Ash is almost kissed by Brock, also in AG. Then again, we see Brock talking and acting dirty towards Ash in the second episode of D&P. The list is very long and I could spend the entire night posting screens and links to websites and youtube proving the stuff I'm talking about now- but I know that the best way is just for you guys to see it for yourself. ( Hence "Seeing is believing" ) So, I'll cut the story short here.

As for pokeshipping, you are right in your own way, Ash does seem to like Misty, but then again, he said that to many people. xD he regards her as a friend and... a supplier of shiny things!!! ( ohhhh the lureeee xD ) but of course yes, Misty loves him 100% no doubt

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*Pokeani- A japanese fan site, a lot of fans consider it to be the only "thruthful" and canon site on the net when it comes to the info on anime; that's what the say, anyway... xD

I didn't know that about gay shipping being popular in Japan, if you're right, that is. But then again, I always did wonder why Boulder and Palletshippers were so convinced.

Interesting. Since I don't speak Japanese, I can't really get much out of the original. I wonder how much of Pokemon really is lost in translation. I'll look at that website, but I have to say that I don't think anything short of a word by word translation of GCYL will convince me that it's not a Pokeshipping episode. There's too much visual evidence/un-spoken communictation. Doing a comparison would be really interesting; I just don't have the time to learn every nuance of Japanese language and culture just for Pokemon. (I don't really like anime, Pokemon is just a nostalgia-thing for me!)

God, it's all so annoying. Why won't this show just end so we can know what ends up happening to these characters.

Let me ask, Oldpokeshipper... I mean this in a friendly way and because I'm curious. Do you speak Japanese? and are you a Pokeshipper? (In the sense that you if you had to choose, at the end of the day, you're rooting for Ash x Misty.)

would like to point out that translating japanese to English (and vice versa) is one of the most difficult linguistic transpositions you're likely to come across. not only is the language and language structure completely different, there are also many cultural aspects that people fail to take into account when people read (often inaccurate) translations from Japanese to English. try and straight-translate a sentence from Japanese to english and what will emerge is a string of words that make very little sense without some re-ordering, and changing of many key words.

James acting like a girl - very camp? doesn;t mean gay, does suggest gay, but at the same time not suggesting any form of homosexual relationship because, from what i know, the only one he can be said to consistently show any sign of romantic feeling towards is Jessie, and that's questionable in itself. whilst there may be a side motive of the writers there, it's not sufficiently developed to be used as an advocate for homosexual relationships in a kids anime show.

oh, and i still maintain that A) to Ash, Misty is NOT simply a conveyor of shiny things (that's not what the lure is, even if Pokeshipping is ever disproved, there's still stronger evidence for the lure being a gift from a very close friend, ergo something to be cherished, rather than simply a gift.) and B) there is a difference between what Ash says to Misty compared to what he says to other departing friends, and the way in which he says it. even if they are simply very close friends and nothing more, he hasn't "said that to many people" in the same way - there is something there, whether close friendship or something more.

AaMLdudez wrote:oh, and i still maintain that A) to Ash, Misty is NOT simply a conveyor of shiny things (that's not what the lure is, even if Pokeshipping is ever disproved, there's still stronger evidence for the lure being a gift from a very close friend, ergo something to be cherished, rather than simply a gift.) and B) there is a difference between what Ash says to Misty compared to what he says to other departing friends, and the way in which he says it. even if they are simply very close friends and nothing more, he hasn't "said that to many people" in the same way - there is something there, whether close friendship or something more.

Well said. Were these characters real people, and not just animated creations, I think they would be downright offended by the lable "provider of shiny things."

I mean, come on, Ash may be dumb, but he's not a pet crow that can be distracted with shiny objects. Even Ash is marginally more intelligent of an organism than something that doles out affection on the basis of being "provided with shiny things." If there's one thing Ash does understand, it's friendship.

Just look how he treated that lure, too. He protected it. He treated it not as a "medal" of some sort but rather as an item that he associates with a true friend.

Uh huh, you're both right but still. James might not a character that shows perticular interest in any other male character within the show, but he's still shown in a rather old fashion gay style- wondered why he never shows any particular interest in any female charatcer- yeah, you might say because he is shy or something. It's weird though he escaped from his finacee- oh I know I know, he didn't like her. But what about his comment in the 2nd movie? When Jessie says that one is asking for trouble when getting involved with the opposite sex, James adds "That's the kind'a trouble, I try to stay out of." With a smile. Of course you can challenge that by saying that... say, he's really in love with Jessie or something- though such excuse would sound... odd. And then, we got the episode "The bicker, the better!" In AG where he says he QUOTE:" I Hate woman" UNQOUTE And then nearer the end of the episode he adds that "those whining woman should be thrown back into the dark ages! - where they belong!" Watch the eppie you if don't believe. And you can't really challenge that, you'd be seriously fighting againts common sense. That is the main reason half of the fanbase regards him as a pioneer gay in the anime lol and yes, in Japan they like they idea of gay pairings, dunno why, the site ( Pokeani* ) says it's because of Jameses bidanshi ( handsome man ) appeal. Plus, he did look great with those boobs on xD

As for Ash, he's clueless, you could argue on just about anything which has something to do with him and an another character- it's a classic example of sticks and stones- Pokeshippers rant at Advanceshippers, Advanceshippers rant at Pearlshippers and those rant at Pokeshippers. It's a perpetuum mobile, a never ending clash of diffrent views with their best hints and evidences being ruthlessly thrown across, what I would call, a trenched fandom, just like nades' are thrown on the battlefield- the truth is, those 3 ships are so similar- the evidence, as you'd put it, is so alike, that the only diffrences are the characters involved and the order at which each ship was established.
Finaly, in the middle of all this, we have a boy, a boy who wants to be the Pokemon Master- he doesn't know any better. At best, he will marry his badges, and in case you're wondering why I'm sceptical about the lure Misty have gave him, well, because that's all Ash was looking at when Misty gave it to him, while Tracey was running around her in Brock's style. Tbh, in that episode ( Can't remember which one it was exacly, but you'll find it in Battle Frontier season ) even Brock was more conserned about Misty than Ash was- he was hipnotised by the power of the luuuuure, looking at it like a dumb person, a very, very dumb person. It's wonder his saliva didn't start to fall out of his mouth. lol
But if you say it has a bigger meaning, then of coruse I won't argue anymore lol xDDDD

And finaaaly, to answer your question, nope, I'm not Japanese, I can't speak in Japanese, though I'd love to, and yes, I do support Pokeshipping though I'm open to most of the other ships, meaning I don't see anything wrong with either Advanceshipping or Pearlshipping, if it happens then so be it.

you're still coming at it from the view though that what's going through his head as he looks at it (i know, 'going through his head' isn't really the best phrase where his character is concerned) is something along the lines of "ooh shiny" rather than the possibility, and in my opinion probability, of it being more like "huh? what's this? well...why's she giving me this?" how much emphasis you place on words in that question is up to you, you could emphasise the SHE and ME making it "why's SHE giving ME this" or "why is She giving this to ME?" as in...does she want something in return, or, is there another meaning to this? or...wow...thanks a lot. remember of course that in one of the banned episodes this lure was revealed, way back when in the kanto series. Misty refused to let anyone else use it, declaring it to be her special lure and this WAS the original, pre-dubbed episode so no 4kids changing of wording there. now, assuming Ash remembered this, it may impact hist response, and also provide a very, VERY strong hint that Misty is giving Ash her special lure that she would let noone else use.

and to the point about James sexuality - i agree with you, i think he is homosexual, but there's absolutely NO basis for a relationship between James and another male character, believe me, it's not going to happen. if anything you could actually say that what is being done is background homophobia - it's using James's rather eccentric personality for comedic effect - if you're focussing on his homosexuality then it would be reasonable to conclude that they are using his homosexuality as a humour point - encouraging kids to laugh at homosexuals?

and then finally onto the shippings - i made the analogy in another post somewhere about these shippings being like religious belief systems. now, you're never going to get an atheist agreeing with a Christian on the nature of God. so then we can deduce that someone who appears to be the atheist of pokemon shippings, or the agnostic perhaps - Oldpokeshipper, is not going to agree with the roman catholic of pokemon shippings - me (first and probably last time i;m going to compare myself to a roman catholic, not that there's anything wrong with them, i just disagree on a number of views - i am an agnostic).
now, you can argue that the evidence is there supporting each shipping - but hat evidence do you choose to see? what evidence do you choose to believe? i believe that, weighing up evidence, you will come to the same conclusion about the correct shippings as i did in my last post. it's not unsubstantiated either, i can back up my beliefs, and i make a point of ensuring that i can do so far more effectively than advanceshippers and pearlshippers, the former of the two i believe hang on through sheer bloody-mindedness.
so; you can bang on about how advance and pearlshipping have as much likelihood of being proved as Pokeshipping, but the simple fact is that it is just your opinion, an opinion i can see little or no justification behind, and one that i am never going to share.
saying all this with the greatest possible respect, everyone is entitled to their own opinions after all.

Ok, guys. I say we call a truce... for a little while at least!

Take a break and PLEASE someone check out my first ever Pokeshipping video!

It's right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ81pnjTtM8

Leave comments!

yes, well then everything's explained I think. Now, shall we all sign the unconditional surrender or conditional surrender? Or do you guys choose an armistice? xDDDD

yadontknowme03 wrote:Ok, guys. I say we call a truce... for a little while at least!

Take a break and PLEASE someone check out my first ever Pokeshipping video!

It's right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ81pnjTtM8

Leave comments!

Not bad though why did you choose a legend like Peter Gabriel?

A Longtime Fan of AAML wrote:Not bad though why did you choose a legend like Peter Gabriel?

Honestly, because it was the best love song I had to which I could make the clips fit. I was trying to make the clips in sync with the song!

If anybody knows a good place to advertise pokeshipping videos let me know. And don't forget to leave a comment on YouTube!

Ok, new topic, anyone?

I do have a new topic, yes. ( Or rather a question, but since questions usualy sparkle topics then... well. )

Ok, since this is a Lost Ocassions thread then I'll try to relate the new topic to it. What do you guys think of episodes 320 and 321 in AG where Misty goes to Hoenn to find the "togepi contest", coincidentally running into Ash, Brock, May and Max. Do you think that if Team Rocket hadn't interfiered something interesting might happened between the two? ( Ash and Misty of course )

Personaly I think that something might have happened but given that Ash is an idiot, well, he'd rather take them badges!

Same thing could have happened in The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon since it was also in the Hoenn story arc

A Longtime Fan of AAML wrote:Same thing could have happened in The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon since it was also in the Hoenn story arc

I agree, although there weren't any particular hints in that special, but you are right nevertheles. wonder what the next special will be...